The TV IV:Proposals/Category LinkBar

(The one on the front page) I really think there should be a SciFi/Fantasy section, and move many shows currently in "Drama" to that section. Its going to annoy some people to hunt around in less appropriate sections to find their shows. Also, they tend to be the more popular shows among internet users, which means it will be quickly stocked. I suggest to keep animated sci-fi shows in the animated section. Also, I suggest to bundle "fantasy" shows with sci-fi to cut down the arguments where show X (e.g. Beastmaster, Highlander) belongs. If I get a greenlight, I'd be more than happy to do the changes. --Moldred 05:23, 13 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Comments

1. ...And Angel and BtVS is listed under Comedy!?!? Ugh. Looking through the sections, I probably could create a separate Fantasy section as well, and keep it well differentiated. (Carnivale, Night Stalker, and Supernatural is not "SciFi". Red Dwarf and MST3K is not "Drama".) But again, people might have gripes about where I would stick categories.
   --Moldred 05:54, 13 Sep 2005 (EDT)
2. I don't think it's really necessary to "move" shows from one category to another -- you can have them listed under multiple categories if they fit under multiple categories. However, if they're in a category that's just plain wrong (as the Red Dwarf and MST3K examples you stated) then they should be removed. Also, TV IV appears to be making use of the auto-generated categories (using the [[Category:XXXX]] tags) - I don't know how to add new categories (I haven't read the help pages enough), but someone here should know how to do that... --The Rizz 07:40, 13 Sep 2005 (EDT)
3. You don't have to "create" a new category in any special way. Just put the category tag in there with the name of the category you want. It will automatically put all the pages in that category. To make it a subcategory, go to the new category's page (by clicking on it's red link on your page), and put the category tag for it's parent category. --Wolf530 13:06, 13 Sep 2005 (EDT)
   1. While the page for a category is automatically generated, it will still show as red until some text is placed in it. Usually a general description of what the category is. Otherwise it will remain red forever. --Fezz(Ryvius) 15:59, 13 Sep 2005 (EDT)
4. The thing is, there's already a "Science-Fiction" category listed under the drama section. 30 shows are currently in it, and there should be little to no trouble heading over to that section of the category. Angel and Buffy the Vampire Slayer are categorized under Comedy because there are comedy aspects to them. They're also categorized under Drama because they also have Drama aspects; I see no problem with them categorized under both, although I agree with your other classifications of Night Stalker, Supernatural, MST3K, et al. If something is clearly very wrong, feel free to change it. --Wizardryo 19:10, 13 Sep 2005 (EDT)
   1. This is why Sci-Fi should be a totally seperate category, and not a sub-category of anything. Unless a genre is ALWAYS a sub-genre of something, it should not be categorized as such. Keep the categories completely seperate, but list the shows in each that apply. --The Rizz 20:32, 13 Sep 2005 (EDT)
      1. I don't know what you're trying to say. The Science Fiction category is linked to the Drama category, but that doesn't mean it's limited to it. It's just that we don't have any Comedy sci-fi shows up. When somebody makes a page about a sci-fi comedy, say Tripping the Rift or something, and adds it to the site, Science Fiction will also be added as a subcategory under Comedy. If you keep it separate, then you'll have to make everything separate, and then that ruins the whole point of categorizing shows under genres to begin with to facilitate easier usage. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding your comment. --Wizardryo 23:46, 13 Sep 2005 (EDT)
   2. I definately agree with The Rizz, even though Science Fiction and Fantasy include aspects of all the major genres, the type of story is still defined by the fact that it is in a Scifi/fantasy setting. You could not have the same Drama/Comedy of Buffy/Angel without the Fantastic element. Also if nothing else people are used to having a Scifi/Fantasy section in their local video outlet/Book store/Library etc and not having it would potentially cause confusion and annoyance. --Woolfe 13:46, 14 Sep 2005 (AEST)
5. I don't know why you're all approaching this as if a show can't be in more than one genre. In the end, the fundamental ones are Comedy and Drama. The setting of the series is of lesser importance. I know the internet has a bias toward any show set in space, but it's not a genre that stands on it's own. It has to be one of the other two. --waffle iron 01:34, 14 Sep 2005 (EDT)
6. Oh and we should have action because 24 is primarily an action show and not a drama! And we should have a whole new category for educational shows since Good Eats and MythBusters may be funny, but they can't be in the comedy category! This entire argument is ridiculous. The categories are set up as such because they need to be broad. How many science-fiction shows can you name that are purely science fiction? They're always coupled with drama or comedy, so I see no reason why science-fiction can't just be a sub-category. --IndieRockLance 07:23, 14 Sep 2005 (EDT)
7. I don't believe anyone is saying something can't be in multiple categories. I think the main issue is that the Categories at the moment appear to be a touch open. The Categories are not so much a definition of the show, but rather a catch all location that loosely defines a group of shows. I don't necessarily disagree with that, BUT I believe it is a bit vague. Drama is a category that can be applied to almost everything. I guess the objection I have to this is that it is not overly obvious that Drama is the catch all that it is. It may just be me, but traditionally I have associated the term "Drama" with shows that are primarily driven by the characters in a more contemporary and less specific background. So for example shows like the "OC" or "Melrose place" or even "Neighbours" (here in OZ) are what I would consider "Drama", but shows like "The Bill" or "CSI" or "NCIS" which are also character driven are defined by the fact that they are "Crime" stories. I guess to me, I am expecting more what I would get in a video or book store, where the subcategories are more obvious and often more important than the parent "catch all" Category. --Woolfe 12:02, 15 Sep 2005 (AEST)
   1. "Drama" and "Comedy" are meant to be catch-all categories. That's why we have genres further defined when you click on them. Under Drama, we have further divisions for Crime, Epic, Horror, Medical, Mystery, Romance, Teen, and Thriller shows, with the possibility of further expansion based on whether or not a new genre is deserving. These are probably the categories you've come to expect on Netflix and your local bvideo and book store. You'll notice that CSI, The Wire, Law & Order, The Shield, etc. are in a Crime category already. --Wizardryo 22:22, 14 Sep 2005 (EDT)
      1. Yep, and once I realised that, it did make more sense. I guess it is more the association of the term "Drama" at the top level. Its a perception thing really, Drama in one sense is too broad, ie everything (even comedies) contain drama, you could argue that Reality tv shows are Drama shows. However in another sense "Drama" is more specific. If you asked someone to name a "Drama" tv program, what would they be more likely to say "The OC" or "Battlestar Gallactica"? Its hard to describe exactly what I mean, but when someone says drama, I don't think of Horror/Scifi/Fantasy or Supernatural, and I think that is typical of the vast majority of people out there. I'm not trying to cause problems, It just feels like a seperation is needed and a decision would be better now than later --Woolfe 14:44, 15 Sep 2005 (AEST)
         1. I would call The O.C. a "teen soap drama" and Battlestar Galactica a "sci-fi drama." The X-Files is a "supernatural drama." Babylon 5 is an "epic sci-fi drama." Angel is a "horror noir drama." Charmed is a "fantasy drama." Stargate SG-1 is a "political sci-fi drama." The argument of comedies being labeled as a drama is flawed because you would not call sitcoms dramas. You'll see that in the instance where a show has equal parts representation of drama and comedy, such as Gilmore Girls or Buffy, they are listed in both categories. I know that your intentions, or anyone else's, were not to cause problems, and I honestly don't feel that you have, but most, if not all, of the sysops have already come to a consensus that we are not changing the hierarchy of directories just because some people feel that Science Fiction shows are not first and foremost dramas. It falls under the boundary of "Use Common Sense!" in the Help section of this Wiki; if you want to look for science fiction shows, click on the Drama category, then Science Fiction. --Wizardryo 01:22, 17 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Links to things other than show categories

I think that there should certainly be an 'Actors' category link in the bar, as it's a pretty important category that's currently difficult to get to. It is however currently a relatively sparse category, but I intend to add a lot more to it in the next week.

I'm not sure if anything else need go there. I think I remember someone saying something about writers or directors, but I'm not sure how important these are. There should probably be links somewhere to these categories, but unless we group them under a broader category they're not really big enough to go on the main link bar. Suffice to say I think that we need to make it easy to access all of these categories in some way, apart from putting category:writer or whatever into the search bar. --Kash 10:10, 17 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Comments

1. We can have a "People" link as an umbrella category that links to Writer, Director, Actor, etc. Thoughts? --Wizardryo 01:32, 18 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Yeah that's a good idea. I was drawing a complete blank about an umbrella category we could use. People would definitely work. --Kash 12:03, 18 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Need an Educational front page program category.

I've been going through categorizes shows and there's a definite subset of shows that don't fit into the reality list such as: How-To shows like The New Yankee Workshop, cooking shows like Good Eats, pure documentary shows like Modern Marvels, and there are many other types of show that would fall under this category. This is a major area of TV and if an Educational category were placed on the front page more shows that fit under it might also get created. --The-jam 17:38, 10 Oct 2005 (EDT)